House Made Podcast

Episode #19 - The History Of The Martini

May 31, 2021 House Made Season 1 Episode 19
House Made Podcast
Episode #19 - The History Of The Martini
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House Made Podcast
Episode #19 - The History Of The Martini
May 31, 2021 Season 1 Episode 19
House Made

In this episode we look at the king of cocktails and try to dig up where it actually came from.

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

In this episode we look at the king of cocktails and try to dig up where it actually came from.

Speaker 1:

This is the housemaid podcast. We're your hosts, John Vieira and Nick bobbin . We're going to cover your questions about home bartending. So let's get into it.

Speaker 2:

What's up guys. Uh, another episode of house-made podcast , uh , today we're going to talk about the martini. Oo , uh, pretty much the undisputed king of cocktails. Uh, if you want to think about it that way, it's kind of one of the only cocktails that has remained as influential and important throughout history. Um, even in kind of the dark age , as we call it through like the eighties where everything was kind of gross and blended in overly sweet, it's still technically survived that although it did go through a lot of changes. Um, so just like anything , uh , with early American cocktail history. So it's a little fuzzy, so most of it's fuzzy. So we're going to have to kind of dive in a little

Speaker 3:

Bit. And do you think, do you think it's because the martini actually came about before the word cocktail came about? Because I have to do with it. I was reading that, that, that the martini is actually older than cocktails.

Speaker 2:

I would believe that because, so martini became synonymous with cocktail for a while , especially in the eighties where everything had that teeny after it, everything was a , it was a mocha teeny , or it was , uh , you know, essentially any drink served up. Right? Yeah. So it just became that thing where it was like, oh, a martini is just a cocktail and it's , you

Speaker 3:

Know. Yeah. Which I guess, I guess for , uh , our listeners that don't know what a martini is or talking about one specific drink, it is just a mix of Jen and driver myth with, or without orange bitters, depending on what, what set you on to follow. Yeah. And

Speaker 2:

A lot of variations as well. So when you talk about vermouth and spirit, there's a certain ratio that goes with that. And originally from what I've been able to find out that ratio was kind of a one-to-one , uh, it was not as boozy of a drink because it was mixed with a lot more of the vermouth, which is , uh , essentially a fortified wine. So quite a bit lower ABV. And , uh, the, the size of the drink was also smaller way smaller when somebody backed on like one ounce to one ounce, when, when somebody back in the 1970s was, you know , a businessman talking about having their three martini lunch or whatever, it's like, you know, they weren't sure . Which, what is

Speaker 3:

A three martini lunch? Tell us about that.

Speaker 2:

Um, I don't actually know . I didn't, I didn't dive deep. Do you, do you happen to know? No,

Speaker 3:

I'm just assuming everything that I read on it was all about the mad men era was that business exec guys, and that was their limit for lunch was three martinis at lunch.

Speaker 2:

That was basically what I got from the article that I read. I didn't dive super deep, but , um, yeah, apparently it's frowned upon nowadays to drink three martinis at lunch. And it just depends on what industry you're in still go back to work. Um, well, if they

Speaker 3:

Were 50 50 is , or something like that where it's a lot more vermouth and a lot smaller size you're talking about essentially one. Yeah. I'll be the equivalent of three .

Speaker 2:

I think that's kind of the point, right. Is if you have three of these smaller, less boozy ones, you're kind of in the same zone as just having one of, of one by today's standards. Anyway. So that is , um, probably how it went. Um, so in my, in my research, I , I kind of dove in, or tried to dive in, I guess, to the , the history component and kind of where it came from. It, it would seem that kind of across the board, there seems to be these , um , four main theories

Speaker 3:

For , yeah, there's only got three

Speaker 2:

There's kind of four main ones. Um, uh , two of them are very closely linked, but it's , um, it depends on who you ask. Right? So , um , one of the ones that, that I found was , um, that the town of Martinez California , um, in the mid 18 hundreds , uh , kind of gold rush era, apparently a golden miner , uh, struck it rich, had a bunch of money and wanted to get some champagne to celebrate barkeep didn't have champagne. So he made them a concoction with stuff that he had, which happened to be gin, vermouth , uh, bitters [inaudible] , things like that. And then they supposedly called it the Martinez special. Yup .

Speaker 3:

Yup . It is good to note with the gin part on that though. It was either Geneva or old Tom gin at the

Speaker 2:

Time. Yeah, absolutely. And , um, from what I actually read on one of these sites , uh, the Geneva style that, that Dutch more Multistyle was actually more preferred in America at that point in time than the old Tom style gin.

Speaker 3:

Well, we, the Martinez that the bowls Martinez is over there at the bar. Oh , they're really good.

Speaker 2:

They are good. I mean, when you think about that, we know we covered that in the gin episode, but that, that multi-year , uh , style of gin is kind of, it's really good. It's kind of like a light whisky almost, you know, like an un-aged kind of thing. So I could see that being really good, another Martinez cocktail, I guess we didn't really cover that. That is supposedly the , um , predecessor predecessor to a martini martini. And that's really unclear as well, but that was made with sweet vermouth because back in the, at least the early 18 hundreds, when vermouth was kind of first on the scene, we didn't even have access in America, at least to the drier style of French, Ruth . Um, that is so common today with, with your martini. But back then, supposedly we only had the sweets , uh, Italian vermouth. So that was supposedly core. It came from now this other theory , um, that is very, very similar , um, comes from , uh, so there's actually a guy that , uh, he's the author of a book on Martinez origin. I haven't read it, but his name is Barnaby Conrad, the third, which is a pretty fancy, super epic. Um, but he claims that , uh, it was actually invented in San Francisco at a hotel, right . By essentially Jerry Thomas. Oh, gotcha. Um, for

Speaker 3:

Miters on their way, on their way to California. Right. And so like across the bay, or I don't actually know where that is. I'll look it up.

Speaker 2:

Uh, yeah. So , uh , essentially , um , well, so Jerry Thomas, he, he had a , uh , cocktail book that came out actually after he died that had the Martinez listed in there, but I don't believe there was anything in any of his publications while he was still alive. So that's really sketchy and nobody really knows. Um, but the, the town of Martinez ,

Speaker 3:

Well , yeah, it's like in bay San Francisco and then it's like up around the corner inward. Okay .

Speaker 2:

Yeah . Okay. So yeah, the , um, the town of Martinez , um, holds very fondly to the fact that that drink was invented there. Right ? Well , they,

Speaker 3:

They stick the claim on it . It's on their like city website. Yeah. Yeah . They're like they, Nope. Everything is fake news

Speaker 2:

For them. Um, the, the main theory that seems to stick, I guess , uh, is that it was actually originated in New York, which I mean, as a lot of that's the mayor Carey . Yeah. The one that seems the most believable across , um, some of these different sources is that it originated in new York's , uh , Knickerbocker hotel. Uh, the bar man there, his name was martini , uh , martini de army de Tazia or something. Yeah . It's Italian. Yeah. But first name martini, supposedly he was whipping up these , uh, these drinks for Mr. Rockefeller that , um, went over pretty well. And so they think it was named after him, but gotcha.

Speaker 3:

The fourth one is martini and Rossi, right? Yeah . Yeah. Their claim to fame

Speaker 2:

That's yeah. That's their claim . So , um , martini and Rossi vermouth, which was first created kind of mid 18 hundreds , um,

Speaker 3:

It was created or that's when it landed in the United States.

Speaker 2:

Uh, the source I looked at said created, but I don't know if that that's fair.

Speaker 3:

I do know that the driver move came quite a bit earlier because when I was looking up, there was a whole evaluation about martinis just based on the martini and Rossi , um, marketing campaign of the early 19 hundreds.

Speaker 2:

Oh, gotcha . Okay. Yeah. So martini and Rossi. I mean, I know they have a long history with, with their vermouth, but I have a hard time believing that that's, they're the ones that kind of where it came from. Most the liquor brands

Speaker 3:

Don't actually invent the cocktails. They just stake the claim on it. Yeah, exactly. They just put their

Speaker 2:

Name on it. Um , so obviously the , the best source, when you start looking at cocktail history, as we've talked about before is , uh , Dave [inaudible] . And so what's he saying? So I was able to find some stuff that he had posted about it and he's ,

Speaker 3:

It says 1863 for martini and Rossi two 63. Yeah . Off their website . I think it's on the bottle too. Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Um, okay. So, so Mr. Uh , wondered here, who was the smartest man alive? Um, he seems to think, or he seems to know , um , as much as anyone could possibly know in this foggy , um, kind of line of work, but , uh, he says that the, the history of the martini begins actually with the Manhattan and seems to think that the Martinez cocktail was off the Manhattan. That was kind of off the Manhattan because at that time, and you're talking about kind of mid, late 18 hundreds. Okay . Um, there was,

Speaker 3:

Which would make sense that the martini then came out of Manhattan or came out of New York because that's where the Manhattan came from was New York.

Speaker 2:

Yeah . Well , supposedly that makes sense. Based on the name, obviously. Yeah . But the Manhattan also had some different names based on , um, the restaurants and the bars that they were coming out of. Uh , so if you look there , that's one thing that he was pulling up was these recipes , um , that were essentially all the same drink, but they were kind of staking their claim on this original cocktail. So one of them was called like the turf cocktail. One of them was called , um, God, it was the something else cocktail. And they were essentially like the same thing. Wow. Okay. Um, and so you use it way better research than me. I just, I don't know. I just wrote, I wrote everything down, but , um, but yeah, so he seems to think that it, that it kind of came in that order, which, which would kind of make sense since we had , well ,

Speaker 3:

I was so under the impression that the Manhattan came early 19 hundreds, like 1910,

Speaker 2:

Well, and I think it might just be like anything where it was probably around, but it was probably called something different. So there wasn't a lot , there wasn't a lot of publications back then. So

Speaker 3:

You had to wait on these bar books and there's like four or five of them. No, he is . I mean,

Speaker 2:

Think about it. You could be at the bar and you could create air quotes a drink. Oh yeah. And this would be like, wow, I just made this amazing drink and then realize that somebody else probably that I already named it. So,

Speaker 3:

Especially nowadays. Right.

Speaker 2:

So , uh, let's see here. Uh, but then he goes on to talk about , uh, what we did earlier, where the gin was different as well. So when you start talking about the dry martinis , uh, that , that came out , uh, after that kind of more into the 19 hundreds, it's unclear whether they're talking about their dryer because they started using , um, a different ratio, so more booze to vermouth, or if they just mean that they started making it with London, dry gin versus something like Geneva or old Tom, so, or even drive .

Speaker 3:

Right. Cause that's about the same time that they, that winds up on the scene too. Right.

Speaker 2:

So it's , it's all just super, super foggy. And a lot of the , uh , a lot of the publications, I guess you can't really call them publications, but a lot of the , the stuff that people did have access to , um, they were really vague. They might say vermouth, but they wouldn't say what kind of . Okay . And so

Speaker 3:

Cause when they wrote it down, it was just implied. There was probably only a certain style you could . Exactly.

Speaker 2:

So there is kind of a lot that, that surrounds all that. And I mean, nobody's ever going to know for sure, totally. But it's just kind of fun to look at it. Um, the other interesting thing that I found was that in the late 1880s , uh, was kind of when the Bizu was on the scene and that drink, if you look at it is actually

Speaker 3:

Very similar, very similar.

Speaker 2:

Uh, now the ratios are a little bit more in the favor of like the sweet vermouth and the green shirt .

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Okay. So, okay. So hold on. So a Martinez is gin, sweet vermouth, orange bitters, and a Luxardo maraschino , right? Yeah . And then a, you is gin sweet vermouth, orange bitters, and green chartreuse . Correct. Just slightly different ratios. Right. And then a martini is just gin and drive vermouth now, but we're, we're kind of talking about the evaluation to get there. Sorry, I just went that way. People, I just want people to know what they are if they've ever had them before.

Speaker 2:

And the, and the classic martini , uh, supposedly did originally have , um, like orange bitters and things like that as well. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Well that's what I was saying is even though, as they were evolving into drying out and becoming called dry or whatever, the orange bitters stayed around all the way through the forties, like as very common. And then it kind of drops off when James Bond gets a hold of it, which we'll get to, and then the orange bitters are coming back nowadays.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Um, also this timeline , uh , which this is a vague timeline, but , um, we were talking about the, the original , um, martini ratio, I guess being like a one-to-one right. Like a 50, 50, which now is called 50 50. Yeah. And it's kind of coming back into popularity because we have access to like some really two or three and not be blasted. Well , the flavor is so we have access to really nice vermouths as well. So like that Carpano dry . I mean, it's sensational.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So that's actually what we're drinking right now, as we're drinking a Beefeater martini , uh , two and a half, three quarters, so two and a half agenda, three quarters vermouth. And we're using a beef feeders and the Carpano dry, which I think is a really awesome vermouth, especially for our area here in Idaho

Speaker 2:

Tasty, if you can't get the Carpano , uh , the noisy Pratt is decent.

Speaker 3:

Um, Dolan drive is actually really good as well. I don't know if we've had the Dolan , we used to carry it at the bar until the state dropped it. That used to be our well vermouth. Like when you started,

Speaker 2:

I think I do. Was it kind of a greenish

Speaker 3:

Bottle? Yeah . It was a green bottle green label. Um, very vague nondescript almost looked like the Antica it's just was a seven 50, not a leader .

Speaker 2:

Okay. I guess I must have tasted it. Then

Speaker 3:

We liked it a lot. We didn't like, it got extremely hard to get because the supplier , um, the state did a read , whatever, dropped it for like months and then put it on a special order. You can't really get it. And we're doing a couple bottles a week, so we had to switch and we're just Fernet fans. And so when the Carpano came out, it was a really easy, well ,

Speaker 2:

It really is a good product too . Um, I like that it comes in a leader as well. There's more, it's , it's kind of, you know, more value anytime you can buy a leader, especially for a bar program. And the flavor is just great. I mean, I'm , I'm also, I'm one of those weird kind of guys though , where I could sit and just drink . We

Speaker 3:

Drink vermouth. Oh, absolutely . That's not weird. That's just, I think a lot of people would do that. They just don't know . They like, for me,

Speaker 2:

It is kind of strange to look at , um, eight dirty martini, which has been a thing for a long time. Although originally , um, was not a thing. And some bars would make their , uh, their martinis with , um, like a very light dash or two of the olive brine to add sort of a savory flavor. And they would do that typically if they weren't going to include the olive as a garnish. So like if somebody had requested like, like a lemon peel or something, they would include that because the salinity is magic, right? Like , yeah. Any, any cocktail benefits from a little salinity. And so , um, that was kind of common. And then it , it turned into adding more and more of that brine . And then, I mean , even nowadays, God, you go to a dive bar and if you asked for a dirty martini, you might literally be drinking. You might be drinking a one-to-one with all of them.

Speaker 3:

There's some guests that come in and that is what they, that's what they enjoy. They literally want half, all Brian and half vodka. Yeah. And you're like, whoa, it's a little, it kind of sets new 50, 50.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. It's I mean, cause it gets so salty, especially if you're going to eat any kind of food with that. It's like you're way over the top. The, that I've noticed from the guests that come into the bar is that people that drink dirty martinis one, they almost always drink it with vodka instead of gin , which I think is kind of weird. And they almost always do not want any vermouth in there, but they don't know that they've just had them that way at other places. And so when we make them our standard way with the three quarter rounds of the vermouth in there, they always mentioned that there's some weird, funny flavor. They can't put their finger on that. They don't like. So if you are sitting at home right now and you are a fan of dirty martinis, you should do a little homework and find out if you'd like that removed because it could save you a lot of trouble. Next time you go to a bar, you might be able to just like, Hey yeah, I don't want to ever

Speaker 3:

Move. Yeah. Okay. So what's left on our timeline here for the , uh, the martini.

Speaker 2:

Uh, just so the little, the little bit, what I found was just regarding the ratios. It was showing that sometime around mid twenties to thirties, that ratio went from being like a one-to-one to closer to three to one. Gotcha. And

Speaker 3:

So it went to more spirit, less removed . Yeah. More spirit ,

Speaker 2:

Less removed. And that became kind of a trend. It was slow and steady, but it looks like it kind of climbs, you know, into the forties and fifties, you're , you're entering more like a four to one or a six to one. And then bang , they're kind of hit a time. I think that kind of peaked in the eighties, which makes sense. Cause everything was garbage then. Um,

Speaker 3:

Hey, I mean, we got such wonderful drinks as a cosmopolitan out of the eighties now don't you don't worry about it'll continue,

Speaker 2:

You know, what they call it , the original Cosmo that , that I know Dale DeGroff didn't invent the string . I can't remember the name of the guy that did, but Daley Groff was very famous , uh, famously making these , um, and uh, I think Madonna would go and get them from them all the time. Actually. What was the name of that bar? It was the one on top of the , uh, Rockefeller Plaza, the rainbow room. Uh, so Dale Groff and when, when that drinks made properly, you have a little bit of cranberry juice, not the cocktail. So it's not overly sweet. You have Quantro um, you have these premium like ingredients. It's actually pretty good. Yeah . It's actually a pretty good drink. And there was a few of those that did come out of the eighties. The problem is that a lot of stuff was really garbage. Oh yeah. But anyway, right around that time you were seeing drier and drier Martinez all the way up to bone dry and some of the guests that Dale DeGroff used to , uh, bartend for , uh, they would basically say like, yeah, I'll take a martini. And uh, I think one of them was quoted as saying like, oh, it's not necessary to actually use any of the re vermouth just to open the lid or something like that. So like just, just the smell of the vermouth. And so that please just waved the bottle around the glass. It got less and less and less. And then I think kind of now we're coming the other way now, you know, a lot of these craft places are pumping out like, oh yeah . Fifties essentially. Yeah. That's great. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Okay. So , uh, we should mention at least James Bond, right. Is that in your notes somewhere? Yeah . Um , that guy, that guy took a stirred drink and shook it. And now that's the preferred method for everyone. Yeah . Especially anybody that doesn't know what they are. I should

Speaker 2:

Have looked up the year that that came out. It was in casino, Royale. Isn't in the mid eighties. Was it probably the 88? It might've been, it might've been before. Okay. Uh, so , um, yeah, it was in casino Royale and uh , uh, James Bond, if you don't know the story, he that's essentially where the Vesper martini, which you may have heard of comes from. Uh , and that was a kind of a unique twist on a Martinez . It makes you wonder if, if the author 67 67. Okay. That size . Yeah . It makes you wonder if the author, which God, what's the author's name again? I can't remember. Um, uh, Ian

Speaker 3:

Fleming got it. First James Bond novel.

Speaker 2:

Gotcha. So it makes you wonder if old , uh, Ian Fleming actually have this drink or if he just wrote it down arbitrarily, I

Speaker 3:

Think I've listened to a couple other , uh , cocktail historians. And I don't think Ian, I think he in filming was one of those cats that didn't drink.

Speaker 2:

Oh , okay. So that's probably why it has a little portion . Uh , but that drink if, if you're not aware of the Vesper martini , um, which is also pretty good martini, it , it actually is. Um, so James w rolls up to the bar and casino Royale and he asked for , um, two measures of volume. I think it was vodka. I think it was two of June , one of vodka. He , uh, he calls the brand out and I can't remember

Speaker 3:

What's probably Belvedere or something. I can't remember

Speaker 2:

What the brands were, but yeah. So two measures of gin , uh , one of vodka. And then he asked for the , uh , kina li Lei , which is not a product that's made anymore. The , the closest thing we have now is the Lila blank , which is actually still really good. Uh, it's a four to five wine. It's not technically ever moved . There's no wormwood in it, but it has kind of a nice sweetness to it, even though it is still like kind of dry. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so it had the kina lay in there and then, you know, the most definitive part of it all is yes . For it shaken, not stirred. And that's like the tagline. Right. Yep . And that's just, I think comes out of, well, either Ian Fleming, not being much of a drinker himself and probably just assuming, like, that's a cool thing to say, or, you know, a cool tagline or maybe, maybe he had seen people using , uh , cocktail shakers. And you just thought that was really cool. Way more exciting than stirring a drink. Um, I don't know. I don't know where it came from, but the reason why that's so notable is because almost all martinis throughout history that, that we know of, I guess not that we know a lot are stirred . There was no reason to shake them because there's no juice or anything. Yeah . There was nothing that needed to be incorporated more vigorously. And when you stir drink, you get like this really, really awesome texture from, and it gives it this kind of silky viscous texture. When you shake something, you air rate it, you get all these little bubbles. And so it has a much flatter mouthfeel to me, I guess. So anyway, it's, you know, it's, whatever you liked is your preference, but I think Martinez are definitely better

Speaker 3:

Stirred a hundred percent. Um, okay. So that essentially takes us up to today. Do you have any more notes on , uh, the history timeline, stuff like that? I don't think so. I mean, that's pretty much. Okay. So, so now I want to kind of touch on the different, like how you order a martini. Right. Cause that's probably like, okay, cool. Like this is awesome. I want to go try a Martine , but like what does it mean? Exactly. Yeah . Okay. So on martini, just assuming if you walked into a bar right nowadays and you asked for a martini, hopefully the first thing that they'll ask you probably is, oh, would you like a vodka or gin? Because vodka is very popular. So a lot of , a lot of places might even, I think, default to , to vodka. I

Speaker 2:

Think a lot of places nowadays do, unfortunately. So you might

Speaker 3:

Even have to specify that you want a gin martini , right ? It's

Speaker 2:

Not that vodka Martinez are bad, but they just lack that character that you get from the gin. Right. That's that's, what's so amazing about Jen is you can get all these flavor components.

Speaker 3:

Okay. So you're ordering a martini. So let's say so Jen , so we w we would press you to try a gin martini because with the vermouth, it's pretty killer. It is good. Okay. So you go in, you order a gin martini, essentially what you should get is most realistically, like I'm just trying to think about Idaho and the places around here. Like, if you were going to go walk in and order a martini, you're probably going to get gin driver, Muth , whatever they have, and probably a couple of olives in it would be my guests . So if you ask for a martini that is dirty, essentially, they're an add all of brine into that drink as well. Or if you ask for a martini that's dry, they're essentially going to leave out the vermouth,

Speaker 2:

Which is the tricky part. That's the counterintuitive thing, because saying you want a dry martini makes you think, oh, does that mean you want more driver moving it ?

Speaker 3:

No, because that's called a 50 50 when you want more vermouth. Well, I guess that's actually calling out your ratio. So you're asking for half removed and half, yeah. That spirit

Speaker 2:

Say in the alcohol world, if you say you want something dry, dry is the opposite of sweet. So if you say , Hey, I like this, but I'd like it to be a little bit more dry. It just means you want it to be less on the sweet end of the spectrum. And so by removing the drive , which is

Speaker 3:

Sweet, as far as the spirit, it's

Speaker 2:

Very subtle, but it is technically sweeter than the spirit base that you're putting in there. Just think of like a white line

Speaker 3:

That's essentially of what it is, fortified white wine with quite a bit more botanicals and a lot better flavor than some white wines, but like that's where we're at.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And so I think , uh , if you're somebody that makes a Martinez at home, especially it's , you know, I know you can sound a little bit , uh , when you do this, but if you have a very specific , uh , ratio that you like, you should let them know because their house ratios may be different. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Because pretty typically like the bar scene is like, it's about a four to one, right. Every now and again, you'll get like a three parter where it's like two to one, I would say

Speaker 2:

In my experience , um, people are still kind of airing on the drier side. Gotcha. I would say the most, most common is probably closer to like a five or a six to one. Oh, wow. Okay. And I think, I dunno , I think that's, I think it just depends because like I went to twigs , uh, kind of like a year ago. Um, and they're, you know, like they're a martini bar and they, well, they're a martini

Speaker 3:

Bar. Cause they put every drink in a martini glass and called a martini.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. But also their martinis are not good. Oh, bummer. I had a really bad one there and it was like so bad. I almost didn't even want to just like plug my nose and chug, which is very rare for me. Um, but yeah. So I think it depends on the , on where you're going.

Speaker 3:

Okay. Okay. So martini a dry martini, dirty martini, 50 50 martini. A perfect martini is weird. You don't see those a lot. I , I get them ordered more with Manhattans , I think, than I do with actual martinis . And that's where you want equal parts, sweet vermouth and driver move . Yep . Like

Speaker 2:

A 50 50 split on your remotes and it's the same for a Manhattan or a martini. It just means you want

Speaker 3:

Both. Yeah. Which is actually really good in the Manhattan.

Speaker 2:

It is good, but you have to have a good driver Muth . Right. So that's, that's the equation that you have to look at here with all of this is you have to have a good quality. Yeah . There's no point in putting a premium spirit in there. If you're going to take some nasty oxidized, gross vermouth and mix it

Speaker 3:

In which I guess that's something we should touch on too. Uh, so vermouth itself has a very low alcohol by volume ratio. They're usually in the seventeens to eighteens. Sometimes you'll get a 19 or so like that, but all that means is that it will, it's just like wine. It will go bad the longer that it's open. And so the best practice to keep it good is to actually keep it pumped, like vacuumed and in the fridge. So if you're at a bar and they're removed, just , you can see it regularly living on the shelf, chances are, you're probably not going to like it because it's probably going to be oxidized. So not a good spot to order a martini. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Or when you go to your friend's dad's house and they're like, let me make you a Manhattan. And the same bottle of remote's been there for 50 years. You're like, Nope, don't want

Speaker 3:

That. Yeah. Cause like a good remove the last up to like six months or so in the fridge, if it's stored. Right. But it only lasts a couple of weeks on the shelf.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. We're less rule of thumb for me is unless you're going through a lot of it buy a small bottle. They offer most of these in three 75, which is a half by a small bottle. You're not using the full bunch of it . Keep it nice and cold, keep it in the fridge. And you'll be a little happier.

Speaker 3:

Don't stick it in the freezer because it's such a low alcohol content. It will freeze over and Buster glass. It will. Yeah. What else ? What other things with the ordering Martinez are there? Uh,

Speaker 2:

So it's common to order a Simpsons to Gibsons . Gibson is essentially the exact same cocktail, but instead of a lemon twist , you get cocktail onions. That's it suddenly difference? Oh , where are you going to say Gibson to know ? Uh, what I was going to say is it is actually common to order , um, a martini with olives, but one that is not dirty. So yeah . So the assumption when somebody says like, oh, can I get this with all lives? You should always always verify with them whether or not they wanted it dirty. Cause a lot of times people assume they ordered it dirty when they include the olives, I've had a guest do that and then you bring it out and like , well this is not dirty at all. Oh

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Well, okay. So then for my guest side, when you order it with olives, just don't assume it's going to be dirty. Exactly. Well, yeah, just , you're going to need to specify it that you want it dirty. Yep .

Speaker 2:

The , uh, the specification , uh, from both parties is basically what I'm driving at because there are so many variations and so many preferences that you, as the person selling a martini need to make sure that you're making the guests what they're actually asking for. And you, as somebody ordering your martini, you need to know what you're asking them for. Cause they're going to ask you questions or they're going to bring you something that isn't right. And you're not going to know why it's

Speaker 3:

Not. Right. Yeah. And the hardest part about anything is just the vocabulary to talk about what you're trying to ask for. Yeah , totally. Oh gosh. Okay. Uh , anything else on the Martinez that you want to touch on?

Speaker 2:

I think that about covers it. Cool. All right . Martini, great cocktail. If you haven't had one. Super good. Go ahead and get one. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Uh, it is it's own cocktail pretty much. And yeah, I think that's it. All right . Comment. Let us know what's up. Uh, let us know what you guys want to listen to join us next week or then the next couple of days. I don't know when this one's coming

Speaker 2:

Out. Uh, yeah, I think, I think this will be out on a Monday. So

Speaker 3:

Join us on Wednesday for we're going to talk about something else. Yeah, probably another cocktail. Yeah. I like cocktails. Cheers.

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